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Under review

Year of Creation

Daniel Nuriyev 1 year ago updated 1 year ago 7

According to my calculations the first year of creation was -3761.
Year 2022 corresponds to 5782/3.

Year 1 corresponds to 3761/2.

There was no year 0 on the Gregorian Calendar.

Year -1 corresponds to 3760/1.
Since there was no year 0 on the Hebrew Calendar either, I subtract 3759 and find that the Hebrew year 1 corresponded to Gregorian year -3760 but it actually started in -3761.

Why does HebCal return -3759?

Answer

+1
Answer
Under review

Understood. And yes, you're correct that this is a bug. Any date conversion between Gregorian and Hebrew calendars involving dates prior to the year 1752 C.E. (Hebrew year 5512) or earlier is guaranteed to be inaccurate.


Hebcal does not take into account a correction of eleven days that was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII known as the Gregorian Reformation. Wednesday, 2 September 1752, was followed by Thursday, 14 September 1752.

This has been a known issue with Hebcal for 30 years, and we haven't yet found the time to fix the bug.


If you're a programmer, we'd welcome a pull request. 


You could either start with Go implementation of Hebcal (look at the FromRD/ToRD functions)

https://github.com/hebcal/hdate/blob/main/hdate.go


Or with the ECMAScript/JavaScript implementation (look at functions abs2hebrew and hebrew2abs) 

https://github.com/hebcal/hebcal-es6/blob/main/src/hdate0.js

1st of Tishrei, Hebrew Year 1 = Mon, 7 September 3760 B.C.E.

https://www.hebcal.com/converter?hd=1&hm=Tishrei&hy=1&h2g=1

To find the corresponding Jewish year for any year on the Gregorian calendar, add 3760 to the Gregorian number, if it is before Rosh Hashanah. After Rosh Hashanah, add 3761.

The question is which Hebrew year is year 1.
As far as I know, and as also written in Wikipedia here, when we count from the creation of the world (beriat haolam), the world was created on 25 Elul year 1 and the first Rosh Hashana on 1 Tishri was year 2.

There was no 1 Tishri 1.

Is this a bug in Hebcal or you do not count from the creation of the world?

Daniel, thanks for this. I really appreciated the background reading, so thanks for sharing those sources! I realize I misunderstood your initial question.

To answer your question about calculations, Hebcal doesn't count forward from the creation of the world. Rather, it calculates dates using a set of mathematical formulas. The dates all are relative to an "epoch", which is an arbitrary point in time. In our case, the epoch is set to the arbitrary/imaginary date 1 Tishrei 1. Once the epoch is fixed, all further calculations are done relative to the epoch.


In any case, your original question asked: Why does HebCal return -3759?

If that's still an important thread, could you send a screenshot or a URL of some place where Hebcal is displaying -3759 with respect to Hebrew Year 1? 

When I convert 1 Tishri 1 to Gregorian, I get Mon, 7 September 3760 B.C.E.
Whether this is correct or not depends on how you count years.
If you count from Adam then it should be a Friday.

If you count from Creation then 1 Tishri of year 2 should be a Friday but the converter returns Sat, 28 August 3759 B.C.E..

If we look at years:

- year 5783 starts in 2022

- year 3762 starts in year 1 (5783 - 2021)

- year 3761 starts in year -1 (there was no 0)

- year 1 starts in -3761 (-1 - 3760)

We can look at it from the Gregorian side:

- year 2022 has rosh hashana of 5783

- year 1 has rosh hashana of 5783 - 2021 = 3762

- year -1 has rosh hashana of 3762 - 1 = 3761

- to know when was rosh hashana of year 1: -1 - 3760 = -3761 

or just run this python:

g = 2022
for h in reversed(range(1, 5784)):
if g in [-1, 0, 1, 2022] or h == 1:
print(f"{g} - {h}")
g = g - 1
if g == 0: g = -1

Therefore I think Hebcal is a bug

+1
Answer
Under review

Understood. And yes, you're correct that this is a bug. Any date conversion between Gregorian and Hebrew calendars involving dates prior to the year 1752 C.E. (Hebrew year 5512) or earlier is guaranteed to be inaccurate.


Hebcal does not take into account a correction of eleven days that was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII known as the Gregorian Reformation. Wednesday, 2 September 1752, was followed by Thursday, 14 September 1752.

This has been a known issue with Hebcal for 30 years, and we haven't yet found the time to fix the bug.


If you're a programmer, we'd welcome a pull request. 


You could either start with Go implementation of Hebcal (look at the FromRD/ToRD functions)

https://github.com/hebcal/hdate/blob/main/hdate.go


Or with the ECMAScript/JavaScript implementation (look at functions abs2hebrew and hebrew2abs) 

https://github.com/hebcal/hebcal-es6/blob/main/src/hdate0.js

+1

Minor edit to above post: the routines that would require work to account for the Gregorian reformation are actually the Gregorian routines, not the Hebrew date routines.


Golang: FromRD, ToRD

https://github.com/hebcal/greg/blob/main/greg.go

ECMAScript: greg2abs, abs2greg, toFixed, yearFromFixed, etc.

https://github.com/hebcal/hebcal-es6/blob/main/src/greg0.js

Michael, I will work on fixing the dates. I'll probably reach out separately to understand how to run the code locally for testing.

But what about the years? 1 Tishri 1 should start in Gregorian -3761